Holy shit guy, you're coming to this waAAAAAAaaaaay late in life; you're supposed to get that shit out of the way by the end of highschool. I've known for years that it's all about being one of the girls; I almost don't like any straight men and the ones that I do like might as well be gay anyway. I might as well be gay. But the point is that most gay men are just as awful as straight men; they're usually either piggy slobs who just prefer bumsex or they are obsessive self-loathing perfectionists who adopt shallow transparent charicature-ish personas to feebly mask their backbreaking emotional and psychic baggage.
So you're fucked either way but at least you smell nice.

Plus, you don't develop 'gay' like it's a canker sore or a tricep.
And maybe I was being harsh earlier on the gay but that's nothing on how I feel about most straight men:- either they are vile and useless sexual predators constantly conniving new diabolical ways to behave insidiously or deceitfully, as in the whole bollocking truckload of ass-shit that was the 'metrosexual' "just-gay-enough" nonsense, which I'm surprised didn't have more gay men up in arms; being able to tell a chianti classico from an haute-medoc bordaux or match shirt to a suit and pair of shoes has nothing to do with the social ramifications of sticking dicks in bottoms and furthermore is ultimately irrelevant and arbitrary when that knowledge or ability is only serving as a pall imitation of geniune personality or depth of character from a creature so narcissistic and greed-riddled that they ought to be banished out from wherever the sun doth shine and whose only real sense of enjoyment in life stems from hoarding turds up their assholes. Or they are selfish impotent hatefarms who spent too much time whining to their mothers when they were children and have imploded their brutalist sexual nature into gnarled little green glowing orbs of thwarted urges and vetoed entitlement that lives in their ever-growing bellies.
You can't help but be ashamed of men as a gender and the exceptions only prove the rule.
So, King, don't sweat it; embrace the only viable alternative to the bleak, miserable and unavoidable prospects above, which is to might-as-well-be-gay. I love that I might-as-well-be-gay and even that-a-lot-of-people-assume-that-I-must-be-gay because you end up avoiding too many of those nights-in-smoky-rooms-talking-about-sports/tv/film/generic-hateful-misogynist-pursuits and you end up spending more time with women and gay men and other might-as-well-be-gays who are all inevitably much better company than most straight men. And their drinks taste better and their chairs are usually more comfortable and you can wear an apron in front of them while barbecuing or cooking and not feel self-conscious and not get your nice clothes sprayed by cooking juices or oils or whatever. Might-as-well-be-gay is the moral highground and it's way more fun. I think of it as the sociosexual equivalent of champagne socialism.

I think you described yourself as some version of the cross dressing genus rather than Gay. You like the gay aestetic, but so does everybody, even the homophobes. Digging guys is what makes you become gay, not digging dolce and gabanna suits (fuck, i was walking home tonight by Holt's and you should see the one in the front window). Your passion, it seems, is cross dressing, which can have nothing to do with "gay" in many circumstances, and as you say, not in yours. Male cross dressers like to feel girlie and embrace girlieness of differnt sorts.

If i may speak for the Internet we all support your honesty here and wish you well and many visits to the MAC counter.

You're just an actor -- not gay.

I dont think you're gay Andy. I do think you are starting to sound like the kind of guy that most girls really like. I adore guys who appreciate pretty smelling stuff, can talk about hockey and give an opinion on which shoes go better with my outfit. It's to bad that having knowledge of & enjoying things to do with the opposite sex result in chats like this. Can we have girly time together soon? I need to go back to school shopping and would love to curl your eyelashes.

personally, as a girl who squeals at the sight of baby animals and such, i love the pink-shirt zeitgeist. i mean, i thought it was really hot when this ultra-charming fella i ran with a while back said, "yeah, i'm wearing a pink shirt, so what!? i'd fuck you." best of both worlds in one statement. basically if he'd read nigella lawson's how to eat he'd have been the perfect man.

King, why don't you just hit the Outer Layer or something and treat yourself to some top of the line products? If you smell great, maybe you'll satify your own cravings while stimulating those cravings in the opposite sex. Remember the Honey and Vanilla was a rip-off from James. I suggest Thymes-Eucalyptus Lotion.

I also strongly beleive in AXE body spray. Every time I ask a guy why he smells so good...that's why. You should have the inside track on this, being the new AXE man.

I'm assuming that was you filion. I wish you hadn't told me that the honey and vanilla was a rip-off from James. I don't know how I feel about that.

Funny thing about being the new AXE man. You know all the girls in the ad got invited to Camp Touch but I didn't. Is that shit or what? I couldn't fuckin' believe it. I'm the Camp Touch guy!

Anyhow, as far as sweet smelling stuff goes, I still got half a bottle of that Aqua di Gio you gave me for Valentine's day three years ago. It's crazy how long that shit lasts.

A.B. I have to tell you that you crack me up.
Did you get any more notes last Friday?

i crack YOU up?! huh? that shit's not right.

no, i did not get any more notes last friday. we left pretty early, and you totally know that if we'd stuck around i'd have gotten like 32 more. yeah.

since some of my friends read this, i will share my hilarious santa cruz note (i keep it in my purse for luck, i guess). ok this is what someone put in my box last friday (come on, that joke was just WAITING to be made), although king, i really wish i could remember what your handwriting looks like: "122: i like your smile. you remind me of my mom. i love her more than anything. thanks. i'm glad i got to think about that."

then i got this note, but it was from my friend sarah: "do you remember that show JUST LIKE MOM!? let's bake some cookies!"

did you get any? something like "hey hot stuff, i like your shirt!" ---> seriously, that's how drunk girls write.

Sadly, I got a total of 0 notes.

I didn't write any notes either.

dude, i hope you're not sweating the "no notes" thing. i mean, any event billed as a "singles night" (eww) is going to have an air of desperation and disappointment about it, and when you throw acrobats (motherfuckin' ACROBATS!!) into the mix, well... you just don't want to have anything to do with that. i know that, as my friend andrew says, there was "so much hotness" there, but whatever. hold your head up high, my friend, and know that you're better than all that junk.

who needs dr phil?!

although still i have to admit i admire the amount of creativity that goes into that particular event. the artwork is usually fantastic. and it's fun to send your friends notes that say "LET'S ROCK IT" and "I LIKE YOUR BOOBIES," that kind of (admittedly infantile) thing. getting creepazoid notes about someone's mother, however...

but yes. hand creams! queer eye! yes! ROCK IT!

ps- that picture that rhonda took of you and me turned out hilarious. she didn't realize that you're like seven, eight feet tall and so your head is cut off from your mouth up. it's amazing, and one of the many reasons why i still prefer film over digital.

If you send me the photograph I'll post it here.

This thread represents all that is wrong with downtown Toronto.

Well, that might be an overstatement, but this has, in fact, been a very boring and idiotic discussion of homos and sexuality. I wasn't going to say anything because I like you people but you've sure said a lot of dumb things about gay.

Maybe it's ok though. It's nice that you're talking about this; I just wish you were talking about it better.

How should "it" be talked about? What is the "it"? Idiotic and Boring is totally harsh. I don't even believe you were reading this and that you just want to be controversial; I see very little here about homos or sexuality because it's all about King wearing perfume and being surprised at "how long that shit lasts". And this could so easily deteriorate into a "who's more gay-positive" pc peeing-contest that it's not even funny. Plus, this is the internet; what do you expect, like James Baldwin-calibre polemic and Judith Butler rhetoric? You know that nobody smart "reads" the internet, right?
Also, saying anything "represents all that is wrong with downtown toronto" is such a fucking inane non-comment that it makes my throbbing head reel and retriggers the dizzy spells that sent me home early from work today.

My comment before was actually really wishy-washy, not harsh, but okay. What I meant by "it", I guess, was, like, what's happening to gay these days, with all these kids thinking up new ways to be gay. It's nice that you're talking about it, I meant. And you people are smart and entertaining, so I was irked that this whole discussion started and ended with King thinking maybe he could get laid with ladies by acting a little bit gay. But then mediating all his "I wear fluffy things" comments with really boring "I love tits!" comments.

Gay also has a lot to do with fucking boys in their butts, and King wasn't about to go that far, I don't think, and then people started reinforcing him and being like, oh, you're totally cute and girls like you, King, don't worry. Boys who wear pink are cute, etc. And they are, but they're not gay, in part because they haven't been fucking any boys in their butts, they've just worn a pink belt and listened to The Gossip in public.

I know I am verging on being pc and trying to win the gay-friendly contest. It's mainly because I actually wish I was Joel Gibb.

Ya, and it also represented everything that is wrong with downtown toronto.

Joel Gibb represents everything that's wrong with downtown Toronto. What's up with the GAafia AKA the Gay Art Mafia? Totally freezing out all the fake gays! I mean c'mon, gay has had its two years or whatever... Wow! A Video Art thing that involves Gay Porn! Quelle Shocking! OOOoooh My buttons feel so pressed!
Who cares?
Also, Blooria, I think we've all heard enough about what constitutes "queer" and how any notions of gender and sexual identification/representation are porous and flexible and all that shit, right? Who's going to get on my case if I say I'm gay? The GAy Authenticity Police? I've totally said I was gay/ been gay for the day without any bumsex or anything like that? Once there was a very expensive meal and a Dutch architect involved! How offensive is that? Do you love it?
Who loses out? The GAafia? Jim J. Bullock knows I was called gay enough in high school to be gay right? What if, aside from aesthetics, I identify entirely with gay except for bumsex? Is that invalid? What about gay men who don't engage in any bumsex, of which there are lots? Does owning a Hidden Cameras cd make you honorarily G to the ayzay?
I don't know what to think anymore.
Finally, early on in the career of The Barcelona Pavilion, the band was referred to as (verbatim)"representing all that is wrong with downtown Toronto" and then in a couple of years Toronto changed and became so great and at the same time entirely unhospitable to precisely the soursad types who referred to anything as representing everything that's wrong with downtown Toronto and The Barcelona Pavilion got a Peel session and no other band from old Toronto did. So be careful.

I feel embarassed about what I wrote in this entry. I feel like it was apolegetic in tone and a little bit phony and weird. And maybe boring and idiotic as well.

So you were right to rip me apart Blooria.

But what can I say? It's what I wrote.

I still don't understand "it" being kids thinking up new ways to be gay. I don't know who Joel Gibb is. I appreciate your comments Blooria, and I don't care if you are harsh. I mean, I thought about your comment at home. But I don't have the internet at home, and I've been busy, and now it's a few days later so I'm out of the loop a bit. And no one has ripped me that hard since the early days of the kkk thread.

So let's have a look

-- "And you people are smart and entertaining, so I was irked that this whole discussion started and ended with King thinking maybe he could get laid with ladies by acting a little bit gay."

Alright touche. Basically I can't think of any comeback here. But I don't think that I implied that I could get laid "by acting gay". I mean, sure , I didn't really probe my own sexuality either, but fuuuuccckkk. I've got a protestant background alright? I don't know. I'll probe it if you want to. But I guess I know I'm not gay. At least, for now, who knows? Can you get more gay? Is that idiotic and boring? Can you only be or not be gay? If society suddenly told everybody that it was okay to be gay, there'd be way more gay people right? And not all of them would be gay, or would they. I guess everyone's saying is...at what point are you gay? I don't think butt-fucking can be the only litmus test. I know out-of-the-closet gay people who don't have anal sex. I wonder what they would say if they found out now that they weren't gay.

But then mediating all his "I wear fluffy things" comments with really boring "I love tits!" comments.

"I love tits!" comments are never boring, that's your bias. And I never said I wear fluffy things. I am looking for a fluffy rug though. I've probably worn a few fluffy things here and there.

"...Gay also has a lot to do with fucking boys in their butts, and King wasn't about to go that far, I don't think,"

No I wasn't. But it wouldn't have been honest. I'd like to discuss it though. I'm sure the ass feels good because shitting is wonderful.

--"...and then people started reinforcing him and being like, oh, you're totally cute and girls like you, King, don't worry. Boys who wear pink are cute, etc."

so what? Those were nice comments.

--"And they are, but they're not gay, in part because they haven't been fucking any boys in their butts, they've just worn a pink belt and listened to The Gossip in public."

First of all, The Gossip are a perfect metaphor for this discussion. No wait, they're the opposite. A band that sounds straight and is gay under the surface. But are they "acting straight?" No way. They're just playing sick-ass blues punk.

--"I know I am verging on being pc and trying to win the gay-friendly contest. It's mainly because I actually wish I was Joel Gibb."

I respect the fact that pc is a bad thing. Who is this Joel Gibb guy?

By the way,

ThEDiscoursehastoleaveToronto!PostHaste!,
First of all, as if Toronto is really deep down any fucking cooler than it was two years ago. Two, I can't understand who Toronto is more hospitable to now. You, or the cuntsucking journalist who said "representing all that is wrong with downtown Toronto"?

And why do you have to leave Toronto?

You're the soursad?

Uh, fuck you king, Toronto's way better now than it was then. Don't you know? DON'T YOU KNOW? The problem is that I've been talking shit about the GAafia and they've put it through to the Gay Authencity Police and now I'm fucking blackballed AND I'm being run out of town! Isn't it Ironic? I PLAY A MAJOR FUCKING ROLE IN HELPING THIS CITY GET ITS HEAD OUT OF ITS GREEDY ASSHOLE, ONLY TO ALLOW FOR THE GAY ART MAFIA TO TAKE OVER AND BLACKBALL ME!!!

This thread is *exactly* why Vice Magazine, the Nick Flanagan of magazines, is so shitty.

Don't read it then, go busy yourself with slobbering over second-rate couture in the windows of shops frequented by people you publicly hate but privately envy. That's more productive than whatever useless posturing you're playing at with your dimestore magazine analogies and facile, inaccurate sweeping statements about what's wrong with this city. Fuck off down to the Republican convention, a place where your fraudulent insidious reasoning would be *exactly* appreciated.

The folks at the RNC are much more focussed in their rhetoric (they would never talk about window shopping), and don't have wave the Judith Butler flag when somebody points out that a cute appropriation of the Gay might be troublesome. However, they certainly share your disdain for the Gay Mafia. They totally hate David Geffen and Fran Liebowitz too.

Guy, have you seen some of those ties? No window shopping? Some of your buddies down there know more about power colours than they do about power politics. And who doesn't hate David Geffen and Fran Liebowitz? And are you always on the internet?

Uh, fuck you too Discourse, and while I'm at it it you might as well piss off as well Spancan. There's nothing worse than someone who shows up on a thread, drops some insult that's impossible for anyone to understand and then sneaks off pretentiously once more. HOw the fuck is anyone supposed to know who Nick Flanagan is? I mean, it just so happens that I do know Nick Flanagan. He's a local comic who kind of does shock humour I guess? I mean, I saw him once and he was reading his jokes out of a book, he had a drummer hitting punchlines for him, and his jokes were pretty sick. But Jesus Christ. I am so sick of people who do so much referencing in their insults. Intellectuals think it makes them sound cooler. But it doesn't, because anyone who doesn't get the reference is like, I don't understand, fuck off you're an asshole. And though I suppose there's the odd fellow intellectual that appreciates the cleverness of the diss - (how do you spell diss?) but really, it's not even that clever. And dissing everything without actually getting involved in discussing it exposes your level of interest, and ultimately your insecurity. I mean, honestly, look at your comments SPancan.
"This thread represents all that is wrong with downtown Toronto."

Great. That's complete bullshit. It would be nice if it were true but come on man.

And then the Vice comment. I don't know Spancan. Why not tell us something interesting instead of making sweeping dismissals of whatever we're saying. At least people are here, saying stuff, exchanging ideas, whether they're wrong or not. If you think it's dumb then go read someone else's blog. There's sure to be some reference-heavy shit out there that speaks intelligently about Gay and would welcome a quiet bitter genius like yourself.

Of all the blogs that I read at work instead of doing my job, this is definitely the most controversial and engaging. The Spancan vs. Discourse duel has come up before, I recall; I don't know if it was here or elsewhere but those two should meet up in real life and go at it. Their bickering is making me uneasy!

Thank you for being so thoughtful and meticulous in your responses to me, King. I never expected to get that much of your attention. We're totally cool, now, you and me. No more disses.

Everybody is being all honest and cute now about the gay, and that's what I wanted, but now I'm kind of embarrassed for bringing on this kind of hokey behaviour.

Joel Gibb is the lead singer of the Hidden Cameras. I really do wish I was him. I'm a girl though.

Discourse, I might be naive or a fag hag but I thought the Gay Art Mafia was really kind of friendly and collaborative. I moved here two years ago and saw that Toronto was really very surprisingly loving and touchy and sweet, and I credited things like the Barcelona Pavillion and other efforts of nice Maggie McDonald and that curly haired Ben dude with this Sesame Street vibe. I don't like to hear that the Gay Art Mafia is blackballing you; it was my understanding that everybody was holding hands and working together in harmony. Was I wrong?

The internet is everywhere. Wifi n'all.

King> This thread is full of references i don't understand too.

This thread is what i had a problem with, not the Blog in general. The shock-humour of NF is like the shock gay of "am i gay"...

And referencing NF here i thought was funny cuz once on this blog i referenced him and then he said "hey!" in a post. that was funny internet.

i can't shop at vice, discourse. i had an ex girlfriend who villified it for me and we weren't allowed to go in there cuz of the mysogyne. this a girl who likes to say cocksucker and swear, so it wasn't a PC thing, it was genuine offense. that's the problem with the irony soaked...any genuine offence can be passed off as "totally PC". that's totally gay.

I was actually talking about Holt's and taking a swipe at the entirely shabby D & G as well as your apparent liking of it/them. But whichever's more scathing...

Also, I'm such a bullshit artist, don't you know? I'm so full of shit that I smell like shit (actually I smell like Christian Dior Farenheit being used to mask the odour of shit); I fucking love the GAafia! I owe them soooooooo much! They spice up my nightlife and give me nice hugs sometimes and make good art a lot and make this city fun.
I guess Joel Gibb is okay but he's kind of irritating like always whining and being nasally about peeing and shit and going like 'doot doot' or "Ho! Ho!" or "NNNnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyuuuurrrrnng"
and that gets on my nerves.

Hey Discourse, are you gonna write anything this week?

Hey King, I'm not going to write anything this week because I can't seem to log on to the movable thing type server access thing whateverthefuck. Plus, I have mono. MONO! Glandular Fever! It's the fucking worst ever. It feels like there are two Hass Avocados that have been sewn into my throat just under my jaw and I'm all narcoleptic and totally weak all the time. Like I can barely get out of bed sometimes. Mono was like the teen dream disease because it lasted a long time and rumour had it that it wasn't all that unpleasant and that you just slept all the time which is great if you're a teen because that's basically all you ever want to do anyway. Now, mono sucks because you have to miss work and it's painful as all hell and Tylenol 3 doesn't really do anything except make it difficult to articulate ideas and put you to sleep.

Are you serious DIscourse? Are you fucking serious?!! I know you went to the doctor yesterday so you are telling me that it is a confirmed medical fact that you have mono? I can't believe it. That sucks brother. Look, I'm going to see if I can set up your login shit again, because while you're all laid up and sleepy and half-drugged, you oughtta be writing about it at least. I wouldn't mind reading some tortured, tripped out prose from you, so I'll se if I can get it to work.

Hey sicko, email me and I can sort that shit out for you if King hasn't already. Sorry to hear about the mono.

I am going through the very same thing. I'm pretty sure I am gay and adore the crossdressing aspect of it. I am a very fem .... ummmm ....man.